How have international audiences responded to Japanese cinema in recent years? In our series, "Japanese Film Beyond Japan", we look at the global impact of Japanese film through conversations between Japanese and international filmmakers.

This second installment looks at Japanese animation, focusing on Satoshi Kon, the legendary anime director who has earned international acclaim for his distinctive body of work. After making his animated feature film debut in 1997 with "Perfect Blue", he went on to direct celebrated classics such as "Millennium Actress" (2002) and "Paprika" (2006). In 2019, at the 46th Annual Annie Awards—considered the Oscars of anime—Kon was posthumously awarded the Winsor McCay Award, described as “one of the highest honors given to an individual in the animation industry in recognition for career contributions to the art of animation.” This award is just one example of the lasting respect that Kon commands among his fellow filmmakers, a decade after his sudden passing. What is it about Kon’s films that has an enduring appeal for so many? And what is it about Japanese anime as a whole that has earned it its unique place in the hearts of moviegoers everywhere?

Here we sit down to talk to two of Kon’s ardent fans: Masao Maruyama, a leading figure in the world of Japanese animation and the sole producer of Kon’s films, and Hsin-Yin Sung, a Taiwanese director who has won international acclaim with "On Happiness Road" (2017), one of the few original animated feature films come out of Taiwan.

Interviewer/Author: Masaki Mugikura, Editor: Satomi Hara (CINRA, Inc.), Interpreter: Lily Chenran Ikeda, Main Photo: (c)2006 MADHOUSE / Sony Pictures Entertainment (Japan) Inc.

“Taiwanese children grow up watching Japanese animation.”

— Ms. Sung, you were born and raised in Taiwan. How familiar are people in Taiwan with Japanese anime?

Sung: I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that every single person in Taiwan grows up watching Japanese anime. That’s how ubiquitous anime is in Taiwan. Take me, for example. When I was little, I loved shows like "Candy Candy" and "Lady Georgie". My father loved "Mazinger Z" and "Science Ninja Team Gatchaman", and my mother loved "Chibi Maruko-chan". We would always watch those shows together as a family.

Maruyama: Many people think that anime is for children, but that’s a false assumption. I think there are quite a few countries around the world just like Taiwan, where people watch Japanese anime together as a family. I doubt Sung’s father was thinking about whether "Mazinger Z" was made “for children,” or conversely, “for adults.”

Sung: Indeed. My parents are now in their 70s, but they still love watching anime. [laughs] Personally, I think it’s strange that people think anime is for kids.

The American cartoons I watched as a kid always felt a bit immature to me. But "Candy Candy" was different. As a young child, that show taught me about love and friendship and what it means for a girl to chase her dreams.

Maruyama: I think what sets Japanese anime apart is its narrative ability, the ability to tell a story. That’s a feature of anime that has been around since "Astro Boy" (1963), the show that paved the way for anime’s big break into mainstream Japanese TV. "Astro Boy" creator Osamu Tezuka was originally a manga artist who wanted to tell the story of “the fight for justice.” Anime was merely the vehicle to get this message across.

Maruyama: Another defining trait of Japanese anime is the unique place that manga has had in Japanese popular culture. In Japan, there is an unparalleled variety of manga, which are read by both children and adults alike. Satoshi Kon, too, started out drawing manga, much like Osamu Tezuka had. And It could be due to manga’s strong cultural foundation that such a wide variety of anime has been able to flourish here in Japan.

The Unique Appeal of Anime: Effortlessly Moving Between Fantasy & Reality

— Mr. Maruyama, what did you think of Sung’s 2017 film On Happiness Road?

Maruyama: It’s a beautiful movie, and it feels a kindred spirit to the kinds of films Kon and I’ve worked on throughout his career. Even though it’s set in Taiwan and is told against the backdrop of modern Taiwanese history, it still felt familiar somehow, like a place I used to know. I think Sung expresses the universality of human nature so well in "On Happiness Road". I got the impression that Sung made it because she had a story to tell, not because she wanted to make a film that conformed to a specific genre.

Sung: Thank you so much. It is truly an honor to hear that from you, Mr. Maruyama, as someone who worked closely with Satoshi Kon, a director I have so much respect for.

— Ms. Sung, you’ve said that as a director, you were heavily influenced by Japanese anime, in particular the work of Satoshi Kon.

Sung: That’s right, although I was already in my thirties when I first saw one of his films. I was amazed by "Millennium Actress" (2002) and Kon’s masterful blending of fantasy and reality.

Sung: After that, I watched Kon’s animated feature film debut, "Perfect Blue" (1997). I was impressed with how it depicted fear inside the human heart and how it, too, weaved together fiction and reality. At that point, I didn’t know anything about the animation process, so it was eye-opening for me to see that you could express yourself in that way through animation. I thought that this kind of visual expression was something I wanted to try my hand at.

Maruyama: In "On Happiness Road," some scenes seem to travel between reality, dreams, and childhood recollections. I thought that those scenes were representative of the exciting things that you can only do with animation.

Sung: Thank you very much. I must have been influenced by Kon’s work on a subconscious level. [laughs] Out of all of the steps involved in the filmmaking process, I like editing the most. It’s like casting a spell on time, and in that respect, I think Kon was a true “wizard of time.”

What Sets Kon Apart

— Mr. Maruyama, you have worked with many distinguished animation directors throughout your career, but what is it about Kon that is so unique?

Maruyama: The most significant thing would be his ability to draw. He began his career as a manga artist, so the expressiveness, the speed, and the quantity of the work he produced was just astounding. It was almost as if he was born to make anime. [laughs] That’s why I think he was able to produce so much high-quality work in such a short time. He had a knack for expressing himself through images rather than words. The persuasive abilities of his images are unparalleled, if you ask me.

Then there’s the variety of genres he was capable of making. His directorial debut, "Perfect Blue," was a psychological horror. "Millennium Actress" was a literary epic. "Tokyo Godfathers" (2003) was a comedy. And his final film, "Paprika" (2006), was science fiction. No matter the genre, he was exceptionally good at worldbuilding. I think his body of work is truly remarkable in that respect.

— Why is it that Kon’s films have enjoyed a greater appreciation and have had a bigger impact on creators abroad than they’ve had on domestic audiences?

Maruyama: I, too, have often wondered why. [laughs] For one thing, there is so much anime being made in Japan that it can be tough to choose your favorite. In contrast, far less anime goes abroad, so it’s easier for audiences abroad to find something that suits their tastes.

Another reason could be that Kon’s work requires a higher level of literacy from the audience. Some people, of course, may just want to sit back and enjoy the movie. However, it seems that international filmmakers—and Americans in particular—have been taken with the more complex aspects of his movies.

— It’s not just animation directors who have been inspired by Kon. Live-action film directors like Darren Aronofsky and Christopher Nolan also profess Kon’s impact on their work.

Maruyama: Kon and I simply wanted to make something that we thought was interesting. Simplicity can, of course, be entertaining, but so can something that leaves you scratching your head. Even if you don’t understand something at first, you might eventually, given enough time. Kon and I always hoped that the audience would come to understand our movies.

Even if it’s 10 or 20 years after the fact, we hoped that there would be a time when the audience would realize what his work actually meant. If something is straightforward, there’s a good chance that someone else will make it, so we decided to do what we genuinely thought was interesting, even if it grappled with themes that were a bit difficult or complex. From beginning to end, he was always consistent.

Sung: In terms of success, I think there are two kinds of films. One is the box-office hit. The other is the true classic that lingers in the minds of the audience, a story that is told time and time again. Kon’s work is clearly in the latter category.

Maruyama: I suppose so.

Sung: As you mentioned, good movies aren’t necessarily the ones that are the most straightforward. It’s more important to “feel” a film than it is to understand it. I believe that a film’s ability to resonate emotionally is much more important than it being easily accessible.

I think that Kon’s work has been accepted by creators of various genres, both inside and outside of the anime industry, but especially by people who truly love anime. Anime fans always want to see more daring works of animation, ones that update the way we think about animation as an artistic medium. And those are the people who are eager to share a great work with many others when they come across one.

Kon’s films may not have been blockbusters, but fans of his work will continue to talk about his legacy for years to come, ensuring that, though he is no longer with us, his work will never be forgotten.

Four experts discuss his legacy in the webinar hosted by The Japan Foundation, New York.