What kind of people are working behind the scenes of the anime we watch, and how are they working on it? The film "Haken Anime!", released in May 2022, gives us a glimpse into the behind-the-scenes of anime production. It depicts in a very realistic way the people who work hard to create works that will dominate the anime industry.

The director is Kohei Yoshino, who has been involved in commercial production for many years and made his feature film directorial debut with "Wednesday Disappeared" in 2020. He also participated as a CG creator in Makoto Shinkai's "Your Name" (2016).

Director Yoshino, who has been active in both the live-action and anime worlds, said that this film was "the one where I was finally able to get serious about anime." We spoke to him about the points he considered important when drawing the story and characters, and his particular attention to detail in terms of directing.

​​Interview / Text:Moe Ishizawa（sou）　Editing:Miho Moriya（CINRA, Inc.）​

Taking on the high hurdle of anime production with a play within a live-action film

--Director Yoshino, of course, had been hoping to turn the original novel "Haken Anime!" into a movie. What made you want to create a work related to anime?

Yoshino: I think it's mainly because I've been watching Studio Ghibli's Hayao Miyazaki films and Hideaki Anno's films such as "Neon Genesis Evangelion" since I was little. I was born in 1979, and I think most Japanese filmmakers of my generation are influenced by TV anime. That's exactly what I did, and by coming into contact with interesting, distinctive works, I gradually developed an interest in anime and a desire to "create an anime work."

Yoshino: However, it is quite difficult to create an anime work by yourself. Short live-action films and CG animations are relatively easy to make by one person using a PC and software, but cel animations that are broadcast on television require many steps and a lot of energy to produce. So, even though I wanted to do it, I didn't have the courage to take on the challenge until I was approached about "Haken Anime!"

-- "Haken Anime!" is a live-action film, but there are original anime within the film, "Fate Front Riddell Light" and "Sound Back: Kanade no Ishi." How did you feel when you actually created the animation footage?

YoshinoThis time, I was involved in the production of the anime within the story in a position similar to that of a producer or original author. That was fun in itself, but I also think it was the easiest position, and in a way it was a protected one.

Even if it is the same footage, the process and work are completely different between live action and animation. It is often the case that corrections that look difficult are easy, and corrections that look easy are actually difficult. By actually seeing the animation production process this time, I realized that it takes energy to get the gears to mesh well and get the work done, and that anime has its own universe.

The difficulty of anime production is not known until it is completed

-- I imagine it must have been difficult from a directing perspective to mix live-action and animated parts.

Yoshino: As the story progresses, the contents of the anime and the real-life scenes start to link together, but I was worried that I didn't know how it would turn out until the anime was completed. The live-action filming was to be finished first, but at the end, there are scenes where the characters are watching the anime through a screen. So even if I made a plan, I didn't know if I would be moved when the anime work was inserted into it.

In live-action filming, something close to the finished product unfolds in front of you, so it's easier to imagine it in your head. But in the case of animation, you often proceed by building up individual parts such as colors, backgrounds, and sound effects little by little. I felt that it was necessary to gain experience in order to proceed while trusting that all the pieces will fit together in the end.

Yoshino: Also, live-action can be reshot on the spot, but in the case of animation, if you want to revise something that has already been completed, you could end up redrawing dozens or even hundreds of frames. I thought I was careful about the difference in the amount of effort required for such revisions, but in the end, there were some parts where I made some very unreasonable requests to the staff.

The conflict between the two directors is depicted in a way that people of different professions can empathize with.

--The film depicts the joy of anime production professionals working together with various people, sometimes clashing with each other, to create a work. What message did you want to convey through this film?

YoshinoI tried to portray the obstacles and confusion that people face when they become director in a way that would be relatable to people working in other jobs.

I hope to convey the message that there are people who continue to work day and night, that the audience is one of them, and that even though there are many hardships, working isn't so bad. I try to express things in a way that is easy to understand so that people who do jobs completely different from those of a director, such as a store manager or project leader, can watch the film and think, "That's what happens."

-- The two characters, Hitomi Saito (Riho Yoshioka), a new director, and Chiharu Oji (Tomoya Nakamura), who is called a "genius," are portrayed in contrast to each other. When developing the character settings, did you also reflect your own experience as a "director"?

Yoshino: I myself have a career spanning more than ten years as a filmmaker and commercial director, but I had just finished shooting my first film as a film director, so I could understand the feelings of both Director Saito and Director Oji. As a film director, I was a newbie, and like Director Saito, I was facing most of the challenges that people face when they first jump into the film industry.

As you gradually gain experience, you come to understand "if I do this, it will work better," but it's not easy to realize it right away. That's how I was able to easily imagine what Director Oji, who has a long career, feels when he sees Director Saito, and what Director Saito feels when he sees Director Oji, who he admires and is his rival.

--Director Yoshino, like Director Saito, also faced obstacles at times.

Yoshino: That's right (laughs). Just like Director Saito, he is particular about the storyboards he has drawn, and cannot tolerate even the slightest deviation from the plan... At times like that, he can feel like everyone around him is his enemy. I wanted to portray him gradually gaining experience from such a narrow-minded state, and coming to understand the important points to keep in mind and the importance of delegating to others.

Everyone has a special anime in their heart.

--I heard that you interviewed people in the anime industry while creating the work. Was there anything you actually saw at the production site that you reflected in the work?

Yoshino：There are a lot of things. In terms of the office, there are a lot of things and each desk has a strong personality. I think it's a gathering of people with strong personalities, so differences in thinking emerge even in small details.

Also, speaking with anime directors was a good experience. When I spoke with Rie Matsumoto, who was the reference for the original work when drawing Director Hitomi, I learned about the appearance and atmosphere of the Toei Animation building in the past, so I'm trying to reflect the worldview of those days as much as possible in the movie.

Yoshino: After meeting many people, I realized that creators are an extension of "ordinary people." They are not residents of a different, unreachable world, but just fighting on a different path, like the person sitting next to you on the train or the person working at a family restaurant, while living the same time. So, by depicting Director Saito commuting by train in the film, I wanted to express that people who create popular works may be close to us.

--In the scene where Director Saito and Director Oji talk to each other in the film, Director Oji strongly protests against the phrase "100 million otakus," which seems to label everyone who watches anime as an "otaku," and says, "I want to deliver our works to people who need them as part of the power they need to survive in reality." Director Yoshino, how do you yourself view the existence of "otaku"?

Yoshino: I think the word "otaku" has been used in various ways over the years, but as it has become more mainstream, I think that some people who were once called "otaku" have begun to exclude newcomers who like anime. In the story, animator Namizawa Kazuna (Ono Karin) calls city employee Munemori Shuhei (Kudo Asuka), who has become involved with anime through his work, "a real-life jūjuu (a person who is fulfilled in the real world)."

I myself was one of those who were called otaku, but personally, I think it would be good if everyone could enjoy anime freely and at their own pace, rather than saying "he's an otaku" or "he's not an otaku." I think Director Oji also rejected the idea of ​​"100 million people becoming otaku" because he didn't like the idea of ​​people trying to put a word on people who like anime.

Yoshino: Creating a conflict structure with words may be easy to understand as a way of thinking, but I think everyone has their favorite anime. In that sense, the first thing I worried about with "Haken Anime!" was whether the work would trample on people's "sacred territory."

--A "sanctuary"?

Yoshino: I think everyone has an anime that is important to them, somewhere deep inside, in a place that can be called a "sacred place" that they don't easily talk about. I'm sure that the anime that has been competing for dominance in Japan remains in the hearts of many people. I felt a sense of tension that I had to express the work in the play in a way that would not make those people say, "This is not the kind of anime that will dominate."

We hope you enjoy seeing the people who work in anime production, something you can only see in Japan.

--After seeing the reaction after the screening, did your concerns, Director Yoshino, go away?

Yoshino: It wasn't as disliked as I thought it would be. That's because the staff was very talented. We couldn't really aim to make the best anime in Japan, but we tried to make it feel like an anime that everyone likes unconsciously by mixing in elements of some previously popular works, so that viewers would feel as if it was a "competing for supremacy" as realistically as possible. I think people who love the original work supported it.

-Finally, with "Haken Anime!" being screened at the Japanese Film Festival, how would you like people to receive the film?

Yoshino: When I first talked to the producer, we wanted to create a work that would let people overseas know that "Japanese anime is made in this kind of setting," and that would be a reference for the future. I want people to feel the unique atmosphere of Japanese creators that can never be seen anywhere else in the world, and I want them to enjoy one of those scenes.

JFF（Japanese Film Festival） schedule

<Cambodia>
December 2, 2022 - February 5, 2023

<Philippines>
January 20, 2023 - February 22, 2023

*For detailed screening schedule of "Haken Anime!", please visit the Japanese Film Festival (JFF) website.