Director Yukiko Sode’s "Aristocrats" captures a time when two women living in different circumstances become entangled in a small way due to an unexpected reason and each of their lives are shifting. "Ito" by Director Satoko Yokohama is set in Aomori and presents a period in the life of the young woman, Ito, who tends to keep her thoughts to herself, as she slowly transforms through relationships with friends and her part-time job at a maid café. Both films were released in theaters in Japan during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2021 and garnered considerable attention.

We arranged for Director Yokohama and Director Sode to sit down and chat. Both directors have films that will be included in the JAPANESE FILM FESTIVAL ONLINE 2022, which will be held in February 2022 by The Japan Foundation in 25 countries worldwide.

Their chat begins on the topic of film production, and as they discuss one another’s works, it is revealed they share the sense that relationships between people and the way individuals live their lives continue to fluctuate in a gray state that does not fit within the frameworks that society defines and demands. Their conversation shines a light on the innumerable, indistinct paths that exist between affirmation and objection, and conformity and division.

Text: Yuri Matsui Photo: Tomohiro Takeshita　Edit: Goshi Kuno & Satomi Hara (CINRA, Inc.) Special Thanks: TAMA CINEMA FORUM

How did you choose which actors would suit the main characters in "Aristocrats" and "Ito"?

── I understand you two have met several times before.

Sode: This is the third time we’ve met. Director Yokohama is my senior in age and career, but she has always spoken graciously to me when we’ve met at film festivals.

As for what we have in common, the actor, Ayumu Nakajima who starred in my previous film, "Good Stripes" (2015) appears in Director Yokohama’s "Ito".

Yokohama: I became aware of Mr. Nakajima through "Good Stripes". In the original novel, the manager of the maid café that is played by Mr. Nakajima in "Ito" is gentlemanly, but there’s nothing about the character that immediately strikes you. I’d been wondering who could play that character for several years when I saw Mr. Nakajima’s gender-neutral, interesting acting in an episode directed by Masanori Tominaga of the TV drama, "Eat and Sleep at Camp Alone" (2019). I envisioned the manager in "Ito" would probably be like that.

── When it came to casting, how did you choose the lead actors?

Sode: I’d always wanted Mugi Kadowaki for the character of Hanako in "Aristocrats" that I directed. Hanako is a character that keeps all her true feelings locked away and converses for the sake of being sociable. In the novel, her internal dialogue is written out, but in a film where that can’t all be turned into spoken lines, the key was how the actor could make the audience imagine her inner thoughts and tag along with her through the story.

The worries of Hanako who is in a financially blessed position might be viewed lightly by people who are truly struggling in daily life. I thought that Ms. Kadowaki was the one who could play that role with depth.

Hanako is in her late 20s. She was born into a wealthy family in Tokyo and raised in a sheltered life. She absolutely believes that marriage equals happiness and decides to marry Koichiro, a handsome lawyer from a good family. Meanwhile, Miki has come from Toyama to work in Tokyo, but doesn’t feel satisfied with her work and hasn’t found a reason for staying in the big city. The lives of those two women intersect.

Yokohama: While I was watching the film, I could only see her as Hanako. Ms. Kadowaki’s performance was so good that I could almost forget the roles she’s had before. Even though Kiko Mizuhara who played the character of Miki is beautiful, her portrayal was so friendly she really existed as an ordinary person. I very much liked the scene when Miki goes back to her parents’ home and lies down on her bed in her room while stroking the sheets.

Sode: I’m often told that the casting of Ms. Kadowaki and Ms. Mizuhara is the opposite of their public images, but I didn’t set out to do that. It’s true that Ms. Mizuhara has an image of being so beautiful it’s unreal, like a unicorn, but when you meet her, you see she’s a person with a beauty like a wild horse that is carefree, strong, and delicate.

Conversely, in reality Ms. Kadowaki values the time spent with family and has studied ballet since she was little. She actually possesses elements similar to Hanako. In the depth of the story I tried to show with "Aristocrats", I think the real elements of the two actors that are not part of their public images match the characters.

── Director Yokohama, what about casting Ms. Komai for the lead character, "Ito" in the film, Ito that you directed?

Yokohama: In this film, the character of Ito speaks in Tsugaru-ben, the local dialect in Aomori Prefecture, which is located in the north of Japan. I had the choice of an actor not native to Aomori practice the Tsugaru dialect, but I’m also from Aomori, so it’s tough to hear a manufactured Tsugaru dialect. Plus, my instinct was it wouldn’t be good for the film.

The number of actors in their teens from Aomori who can speak the Tsugaru dialect can be counted on one hand. Ren Komai was the first name to come up out of that handful. Unlike Ito, Ms. Komai is chatty, but I created many opportunities to meet before filming and found the character of Ito in her.

Ito Soma is a 16-year-old who goes to high school in the city of Hirosaki. She inherited the talent for playing the Tsugaru shamisen from her grandmother and late mother, but is unable to show her true self to anyone because of her strong Tsugaru accent and shyness. One day, she boldly begins a part-time job at a maid café in Tsugaru.

Discussing Musical Commonalities in Both Films: Musical performance scenes and background music by Takuma Watanabe

Sode: In "Ito", there are scenes where Ito plays the shamisen, a traditional Japanese stringed instrument. Did Ms. Komai start learning the shamisen when she was cast?

Yokohama: That’s right. Filming was postponed because of the pandemic, so she learned for just under a year. I thought that if she didn’t improve to the point I was aiming for by the time filming started, then I’d incorporate her process of improving into the story. But, she advanced up to the level I’d envisioned. I believe there are scenes where instruments are played in "Aristocrats", too.

Sode: Yes, there’s a violin performance by Itsuko, who is played by Shizuka Ishibashi. There were few musical performance scenes and it’s a difficult instrument, so I thought I’d just have her master the finger movements. However, Ms. Ishibashi practiced until she could play because she has a background in dance and feels something is off when she sees a person who acts as a dancer, but does not dance naturally.

The musician, Takuma Watanabe was in charge of music for both "Ito" and "Aristocrats", wasn’t he?

Yokohama: I’m the type of person who imprecisely communicates what I envision through emotion, but Mr. Watanabe fully grasped the image I had. Director Sode, what was your experience with Mr. Watanabe?

Sode: Other music was being created with the musical pieces mainly performed by a quartet, but I have zero knowledge of classical music, so just like Director Yokohama I made my request through emotion and left it up to Mr. Watanabe. He’s also a cinephile, so he put together music after closely watching the structure of the film. I feel as if the standard of the film was raised through the music.

There is value in depicting people not exploited by anyone.

Sode: At a talk during TAMA CINEMA FORUM, I named "Ito" as a women’s film that I’d recently seen and would recommend.

Yokohama: Thank you.

Sode: I think it’s great that the women depicted in Director Yokohama’s films exist only for themselves. The character of Ito isn’t cuter than other girls, or stylish and looked up to by others. She’s depicted as an ordinary teen, isn’t she? I think depicting Ito’s existence simply without adding special value is an affirmation of her. You’ve consistently portrayed women who don’t live for anyone else or pander to anyone in your past films, too, such as "German plus Rain" (2007) and "Chiemi and Kokkunpacho" (2005).

On that point, I trust in your filmography. I think that films showing women who aren’t exploited by anyone are included in the many films called ‘feminist films,’ not just the films only portraying a fight with people in power or clearly expounding a message.

Yokohama: In the beginning, I didn’t self-consciously intend to portray women, but when I think back, "German plus Rain" is about a 16-year-old girl unfettered by societal standards of value such as gender and occupation. The film’s theme was questioning how we ourselves should live.

It also may be that people who are ‘not subject to being exploited’ are slapped with the label of being ‘unproductive’ and ‘useless in society.’ Listening to Director Sode talking, I felt that I like to portray people in films who aren’t given a name in society. The main characters in my films are all people who can’t give a good answer to the question, “What’s the purpose of living?”

Sode: Listening to what Director Yokohama just said, I realized that "Aristocrats" is a story about women who play the roles of ‘a good wife’ and ‘a woman of convenience’ in society renouncing those roles.

Yokohama: Watching "Aristocrats", what came to my mind was "One Sings, the Other Doesn’t" (1977) by Director Agnès Varda. That film is about friends who have very different characters and ways of living that grow apart, but continue their loose relationship even while their lives and values completely change over a long period.

"Aristocrats" also thoughtfully portrays how two women whose birthplace, upbringing, and characters never converge meet and build a relationship. Though it is ultimately a story of individuals, in the telling it naturally links to social issues. I very much understand the significance of the strong effect "Aristocrats" had on Japanese society in 2021.

The importance of cultivating boundaries without inviting division

── Regarding being in tune with the times, both "Ito" and "Aristocrats" come from original works. "Ito" was released in 2011, and "Aristocrats" in 2016. There have been various changes in society between then and the time the films were made. Given these changes, I’d like to ask what kind of things you were conscious of when turning the stories into films.

Yokohama: "Ito" has the unusual setting of a maid café where women serve customers dressed as maids. As a way to approach this original work, I felt that I had to incorporate today’s gender sensitivity into the story or audiences wouldn’t wholeheartedly enjoy the world in the film. On the other hand, in the story there are fanatical fans, Ito-tenkyo, who take it upon themselves to get together and prevent Ito from being approached by gropers. I was also worried whether their depiction would be objectionable to people who believe that kind of action is the right attitude of fans.

I think to object is to divide. Looking back on my films to date, I think I’ve partly made movies because I want to portray how far I could cultivate that division and remove boundaries. In that sense, I believe there’s no need for the characters in "Ito" to force themselves to be sympathetic to one another or align their feelings. I feel like I wanted to show the appeal of different people being in the same place just as they are, without affirming or objecting to another’s existence.

Sode: I think there is a bit of a difference in the ‘ideal’ depicted in stories and the ‘pragmatism’ of living in reality. I have the feeling that just raising the ideal of ‘this is how I want something to be’ and ’this is the way it should be,’ will leave some people out. So, what should be valued? I think it’s the sense of ‘cultivating’ that Director Yokohama spoke of.

── Director Sode, can you tell us a little more about that ‘ideal’ and ‘pragmatism’?

Sode: I was really struck by the scene in "Ito" where the character of Ito becomes close to her classmate, Sanae when returning from an educational field trip. When illustrating a story in which a teenager who finds it hard to find a place among her peers is drawn into a different world, the ‘ideal’ could probably only be stated as ‘it would be good to have a place that understands me that is unrelated to age and other attributes.’ However, I feel that’s a goal conceived of by people who have already found their place. From that teenager’s perspective, she probably wants a friend of around the same age even with a stereotypical set of values. That’s the ‘pragmatism.’

"Ito" is a full-spectrum film with various elements. I think that’s great that one of those elements is the story of becoming friends with a girl of around the same age.

Yokohama: I see. That’s what you mean by ‘pragmatism.’ Ito didn’t have any friends in the initial scenario, but I thought that was contrived. I chose to show the presence of the kind of friend she’d spend time with during breaks, but doesn’t have an intimate connection with.

Sode: That’s all the more lonely, isn’t it?

Yokohama: For sure. Goofing around with people is easy, but being able to be alone shows strength in a sense.

Possessing the desire to ‘live my life with someone else’

Sode: "Aristocrats" is a story about two different kinds of women, which is something that’s been depicted many times so far. But, most stories evolve so that while the differences are recognized, in the end they come together or accept one another as rivals. Naturally, there’s nothing wrong with that. However, when I read Mariko Yamauchi’s original novel I thought it is interesting that women of different types can sympathize with each other because, as women, they face similar hardships. I found that to be understandable. So, when I turned it into a film, I wanted to attach importance to the sense of distance in which ‘you’re over there, I’m here, and that’s okay.’

Becoming friends isn’t everything. To elaborate, both Hanako and Miki have friends, but I think they don’t have to be friends with each other their whole lives. It’s alright if they help one another when necessary. While some people can feel at ease with putting names to relationships, such as ‘friend,’ ‘sweetheart,’ and ‘family,’ I sense that often people are shackled by that and suffer. I wanted to show a relationship that slightly loosens up those rigid frameworks created by such names so the characters wouldn’t be suppressed by them.

Yokohama: Did you always have that underlying way of thinking about such relationships?

Sode: As I’ve gotten older, I’ve gradually come to feel that way. I feel pressure to search for people who merit the already existing names of relationships, like ‘friend’ and ‘sweetheart.’

Also, as a counterargument against patriarchal values, the validity of not connecting with someone and being alone is now indicated. I think that’s one acceptable answer. Plus, I believe in and possess the desire to ‘live my life with someone else,’ including work colleagues, people I meet only once, and being arbitrarily inspired by wise words from famous film directors I’ve never met.

If I live a long life, I’m sure that my thinking and relationships will continue to steadily shift. I’d like to be positive about finding the fun in those changes.

Yokohama: Changing isn’t necessarily sad, is it? Recently, I read a diary I wrote 20 years ago, but I don’t at all remember the people and events I wrote about even though it’s my own life. When I consider that 20 years from now I probably won’t remember any of the things happening today, it really takes a load off my mind.

Sode: The capacity to forget is one of the great abilities of humans. We forget about our own affairs, and I think forgetting about others to a degree is a healthy way to live life.

Yokohama: I think that’s so true. If we remembered everything that happened, it’d be so hard to live life.

the JAPANESE FILM FESTIVAL ONLINE 2022

Organizer: The Japan Foundation
Time Span: two weeks from February 14, 2022 to February 27, 2022
Streaming Titles: total of 20 films including Aristocrats, and Ito (not available in some countries)
Streaming Platform: Japanese Film Website “JFF+” (managed by The Japan Foundation)
Fee: Free (User registration is required before viewing.)
List of Countries: South Korea, Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Myanmar, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Australia, New Zealand, United States, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Peru, Italy, Spain, Germany, Hungary, Egypt (25 countries) (Films cannot be viewed in Japan.)
Subtitle Languages: Maximum of 15 languages